Curse

Outkast · Jun 22, 2006, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Another thing people don't realise it that a lot of well respected balanced players do play IWAY occasionally and enjoy it.

Last night with Yunas Ele, we went on quite a few runs with Dazzling Fox (korean r12) and Chop Chop Hug Panda (iA).

Other players that have iwayed with our teams before include Deangjang Sama, MEATBALL, Power of my rangers, Maverick ftw, Electron Theory and countless other well ranked balanced or spike players.

You may also sometimes see teams playing IWAY that you wouldn't expect. We came across ugly and emt both running it only the other day, with pretty much the same mods we run.

Maybe some of the haters out there should try it themselves occasionally, instead of turning out all bitter and twisted like Shard.

christianc750 · Jun 22, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outkast

all bitter and twisted like Shard.

Shard has been an idot and a real *** since I let him in the original Rnub. I persoanally kicked him after 2 weeks and quite frankly he wasn't that good of a player.

Outkast · Jun 22, 2006, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Oh, another player who got their IWAY tiger and moved straight onto spike is I Killed Superman, now JAZMIN from HooD.

Random Nonsense · Jun 22, 2006, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Well I always said you bought the game, play what you want. As long as you are having fun, I guess that is all that matters.

geminisaga · Jun 22, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Nonsense

Well I always said you bought the game, play what you want. As long as you are having fun, I guess that is all that matters.

very well said

shardfenix · Jun 23, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by christianc750

Shard has been an idot and a real *** since I let him in the original Rnub. I persoanally kicked him after 2 weeks and quite frankly he wasn't that good of a player.

Which is why crappy teams like kastro, Pi, and epyon ask me to grace them with my horrible infusing skills which make us win and hold halls for hours, right?

Path I seem to remember your 14-year-old-ego trash talking me many many times after I was kicked, talk about hypocrisy.

tomcruisejr · Jun 23, 2006, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Which is why crappy teams like kastro, Pi, and epyon ask me to grace them with my horrible infusing skills which make us win and hold halls for hours, right?

Path I seem to remember your 14-year-old-ego trash talking me many many times after I was kicked, talk about hypocrisy.

Please keep it on topic. This is S H A R D vs Iway thread.

Huntmaster · Jun 23, 2006, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Every iway thread lately seems to have become Shard vs iway thread. :/

tomcruisejr · Jun 23, 2006, 08:19 AM // 08:19

................ no point

art_ · Jun 23, 2006, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outkast

Another thing people don't realise it that a lot of well respected balanced players do play IWAY occasionally and enjoy it.

Last night with Yunas Ele, we went on quite a few runs with Dazzling Fox (korean r12) and Chop Chop Hug Panda (iA).

Other players that have iwayed with our teams before include Deangjang Sama, MEATBALL, Power of my rangers, Maverick ftw, Electron Theory and countless other well ranked balanced or spike players.

You may also sometimes see teams playing IWAY that you wouldn't expect. We came across ugly and emt both running it only the other day, with pretty much the same mods we run.

Maybe some of the haters out there should try it themselves occasionally, instead of turning out all bitter and twisted like Shard.

i trash talk IWAY sometimes because I know that HA would be much easier to get into for new players if it didnt exist. I also believe that IWAY is a build that takes less skill than others (excluding spike) and if you have only played iway to r10 then you don't really have understanding of anything else (in my view understanding comes with experience), yet you will have the advantage over perfectly competent players when it comes to those r9++ balanced teams.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an IWAY hater i played it myself a while back, hence I know a few of the IWAYers who still play IWAY/haven't raged the game. Ones that i speak to regularly inc. Ballomus, Sizzy Boy etc; and I played with Hopeless when he was like r3 (he had a different name) but I haven't spoken to him since he got a massive ego around about r6~. Anyhow I don't hate on them, or IWAY, but that doesn't mean I don't wish it didn't exist.

Chris Almighty · Jun 23, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

OMG J A S M I N is I killed superman!! iwayer!!!!!!!!!!!! why j a s m i n

PASTA TIME!! OMFG

Random Nonsense · Jun 24, 2006, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by art_

i trash talk IWAY sometimes because I know that HA would be much easier to get into for new players if it didnt exist. I also believe that IWAY is a build that takes less skill than others (excluding spike) and if you have only played iway to r10 then you don't really have understanding of anything else (in my view understanding comes with experience), yet you will have the advantage over perfectly competent players when it comes to those r9++ balanced teams.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an IWAY hater i played it myself a while back, hence I know a few of the IWAYers who still play IWAY/haven't raged the game. Ones that i speak to regularly inc. Ballomus, Sizzy Boy etc; and I played with Hopeless when he was like r3 (he had a different name) but I haven't spoken to him since he got a massive ego around about r6~. Anyhow I don't hate on them, or IWAY, but that doesn't mean I don't wish it didn't exist.

Amen brotha.

Guinea Fig · Jun 24, 2006, 03:01 PM // 15:01

I agree with art. That is actually my main problem with iway. Some iway players try to claim that the build is good for new players. I will TRY to argue that it is horrible for new players.

One of the biggest reasons people start iwaying is because no one wants to play with them. When they do manage to start a group, they get baptized by fire against the first iway group they meet. The iway people I know call it free two minute fame. So then they turn to iway.

There is such a thing as a good/bad iway but you have to agree it is a much easier build to play than just about anything else. Iway has gotten fancier in the last few weeks for sure.. and even have developed simple "strategies". Fertile against spike team, kill da warder gogogo, etc. But honestly just looking at the roles Necros have to heal... but they also have tons of soul reaping energy + a trapper devoted to protecting them. Trapper traps near the necros and occasionally has to move up. Spirit spammer spirit spams all the time. It's not even like a spirit spammer on a balanced team that has other duties. The guy just spirit spams. A ritual lord ritualist. 4 Warriors that rage your face.

It takes weeks to months to get good enough and to build up a friends for a new player to start beating iways regularly. Then there are several ranked pug or guild iways that are tough for ANYONE. These new players will be rolled by these iways for months on end.

If iway didn't exist... at the very least a group of fresh from PvE players will have a chance at beating other new players with a variety of builds. They might be losing to more experienced players but that can be a learning experience. Right now new HA players playing any build get utterly destroyed by new players playing IWAY. IWAY, even run badly, has enough pressure to collapse teams with new monks. It can also afford to make mistakes that other teams can't. It can let 8 people die and still win. It doesn't neccesarily have to hunt down any spirits... other than frozen. A spirit like soothing certainly slows down IWAY offense but certainly doesn't compare with what Natures or QZ can do to non-iway teams. Positioning is only really important for the non-warriors on the team. For new HA players at least... IWAY is the ultimate play to win build.

For a new players its this:

Iway: Easy fame. I win. Need Group? ID/AD 1.
No Iway: Weeks of losing while I build up friends list. Only can do good runs when friends online.

What do you think most new players are going to choose? I don't think that's neccesarily a good thing. It is just a build. But so was necro spike and spirit spamming.

tomcruisejr · Jun 24, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinea Fig

One of the biggest reasons people start iwaying is because no one wants to play with them. When they do manage to start a group, they get baptized by fire against the first iway group they meet. The iway people I know call it free two minute fame. So then they turn to iway.

yea, no one wants to play with them coz of the rank system of the past, which was so valued that you hear a ranked group, "no rank 0 noobs" to any player that wanna join them. then they turned to iway and found out that it works and addictive. but those who persevered got through it and now are decent players. so moral is, perseverance is key.

what is difference between any builds and iway in Tombs anyway? there is none coz every build's aim is to take down 8 targets/capture 3 relics/hold an altar. iway and any builds have the capability to do them 3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinea Fig

They might be losing to more experienced players but that can be a learning experience.

if you lose to iway or any kind of build, its your fault, not your enemies' fault. but every loss should be taken as learning experience. it wont do any good if you just sit on a corner and wished iway never existed. its a valid build. you just have to deal with it and know how to beat it.

there are players who can beat iway and i bet they arent posting in this thread.

art_ · Jun 24, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

there are players who can beat iway and i bet they arent posting in this thread.

You just lost all credibility.

Guinea Fig · Jun 24, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

yea, no one wants to play with them coz of the rank system of the past, which was so valued that you hear a ranked group, "no rank 0 noobs" to any player that wanna join them. then they turned to iway and found out that it works and addictive. but those who persevered got through it and now are decent players. so moral is, perseverance is key.

Players don't want to teach new players how to play. That got ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with IWAY. I don't get your point there at all. All I know is today, rank means very, very little. Iway is the ultimate fame machine. If you really farm that fame you can get rank 9 in about 1 1/2 - 2 months with iway. Perseverance? What does IWAY have to do with perseverance? Perseverance was trying to earn fame before iway. Exceptions being the now nerfed builds. Iway is definately the easy way out and is accepted as the fastest fame there is. It's fast and easy to put together. What other build can you expect to pug half the team and expect to win?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

if you lose to iway or any kind of build, its your fault, not your enemies' fault. but every loss should be taken as learning experience. it wont do any good if you just sit on a corner and wished iway never existed. its a valid build. you just have to deal with it and know how to beat it.

Well yes. However, HA is once again becoming a big lesson in just defeating IWAY. With necro spike nerfed IWAY is coming back really strong. OoA with 4 warriors is so much anti-enchantment that wards are almost a neccesity. To be honest I don't think it's a valid build. No, it's not a good holding build. However, its SOOOOO GOOOOD at what it does, (fame farming) that I (and many, many others) feel it is out of control. It completely outpaces any other build to such an extent in that category that I believe it really finished off the fame system for good. FoTM builds have always been considered fame engines but IWAY takes it to another level. The comparable fame farming builds: necro spike and spirit spamming have since been nerfed. IWAY was nerfed but now has been inadvertantly brought back stronger than it has ever been.

Yunas Ele · Jun 24, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinea Fig

It's not even like a spirit spammer on a balanced team that has other duties.

Can you expand on these 'other duties' a rit spammer has on a balance team? I've played rit spammer for a balance team and its EXACTLY the same as an IWAY rit spammer, give or take a few skills.

But of course, the IWAY rit spammer is, after all, in an IWAY team, so clearly it takes absolutely no skill while the almost identical balanced rit spammer is very difficult role that only the most skilled GW players can handle. Right...?

Also, I think one of the big the reason people turn to IWAY is because its the only the group an unranked player can get into. Want to do balance? Oh no, your not r6+ or 9+, tough luck. Most of the balance teams forming in id1 are asking for a bare minimum of 6+ (meaning some asking for 6+, others for 8+, others for 9+... etc). The odd team is r3+ but there are almost no unranked ORGANIZED teams forming. The only unranked teams I see form are henchways and pick anything and go, and of course, IWAY.

Now of course, in the very rare chance that an unranked organized, non-IWAY group does form (which happens what? 4 or 5 times a day?) then your situation is completely true. But, in terms of new players I think you can't just blame IWAY alone. Maybe if some of the more experienced, higher ranked groups gave new players a chance they'd actually get somewhere. But no, everyone wants ranked players so players turn to IWAY to get their ranks.

Guinea Fig · Jun 24, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

I was talking about the ranger spirit spammer. The ritualist spirit spammer is pretty much the same and easy to play no matter what the build. Sorry if I didn't make it clear... but you can see that I mentioned the ritualist later.

There will always be rank discrimination Yunas so please don't use that to defend iway. It's more about human nature. It has happened in any game with similar rankings.

Personally, if anything iway has made rank discrimination in non-iway builds worse. IWAY is so good at punishing mistakes that new players aren't given too many chances at mistakes. Whereas maybe in september (wow iways has been around a long time), I would accept someone who seems to have the right skillbar, now I can not.

Too many things have to be done correctly to be IWAY to count on a PuG anymore:

Monks have to be top notch kiters. Great reactions (less enchant defense). Good judgement. Good Energy Management (channeling get stripped constantly now).

Warriors have to pester necros or kill the trapper if they are within range. Kill dangerous spirits as soon as they go up. Watch for traps. Don't overextend (2 iway warriors kill you pretty fast)

Warders have contribute to the damage of the team because IWAY has a pretty solid defense. They have to make SURE the wards are in a consistent location. Make sure not to get interrupted (harder than ever without enchants).

You can not count on the rank 0 player to do all those things. You'd have to spend weeks filtering through them and losing. That sounds unreasonable.

I don't hate the iway players. I do hate the build. Like you guys keep saying it IS just a build. Everything is shrug lol I can't with argue that. On alter maps it might not be greatest build. However, it IS completely unbalancing when it comes to fame. Don't play it and you get left behind.

Yunas Ele · Jun 24, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinea Fig

I was talking about the ranger spirit spammer. The ritualist spirit spammer is pretty much the same and easy to play no matter what the build. Sorry if I didn't make it clear... but you can see that I mentioned the ritualist later.

And whats different about the ranger spirit spammer? They have savage shot? Wow that just made it soooo much more skillfull to play. By the way, I use to take savage shot on my trappers/spirit spammers. However, no room for it now since I only run 1 ranger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinea Fig

There will always be rank discrimination Yunas so please don't use that to defend iway. It's more about human nature. It has happened in any game with similar rankings.

Oh, I realize that. I'm just saying BECAUSE of rank discrimination, people will turn to IWAY because its the only build that won't hate them for having a low rank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinea Fig

Don't play it and you get left behind.

There are tons of high ranked players that have never IWAYed or played it only once or twice.

tomcruisejr · Jun 24, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by art_

You just lost all credibility.

i am referring to gvg guilds that never ever lost to iway. (prenerf, post nerf dual orders stacking). :P